Recently, Ezidi Times was contacted by one of our readers who told us that he/she had painted a painting which he/she wanted to gift to a Ezidi. Upon inquiring further, our dear reader told us that upon having dreamt a dream, the person got interested in Ezidis and started to look for more reliable information about Ezidis. Our reader shared such an interesting story that we couldn’t leave his/her story unheard. Therefore, we have conducted an interview with our dear reader who will remain anonymous in order to protect the privacy of the individual in this story.

Interview

You shared a very interesting story with Ezidi Times about how your interest in the Ezidis began. Could you tell us more about this topic and your experiences during this process?

“I am an ordinary Turkish citizen. Unfortunately, we Turks are a nation that reads fewer books, and the number of people who read books is small. I am one of those few Turks. I love reading books. Five years ago, I read Zülfü Livaneli’s Huzursuzluk. I really liked it. In that book, Livaneli speaks very sincerely about the Ezidi people, describing the atrocities, rapes, and other evils they have suffered. The suffering that ISIS inflicted on Ezidi women and girls deeply saddened me. Zülfü Livaneli’s Huzursuzluk is truly a beautiful book. Before reading it, I didn’t know much about the Ezidi people. I had mostly heard about the atrocities ISIS committed against Ezidi women in the news, but this book showed all their suffering in vivid detail. Later, I had a dream. In my dream, I saw a peacock—an incredibly beautiful blue peacock with green wings. Then, I saw writings in an ancient script. I couldn’t understand them, of course, but they were cuneiform inscriptions. Perhaps I dreamed this because I was deeply affected by the book I had read. After that, I researched the Ezidi people. I was moved by the fact that, despite all the suffering they have endured, they are a noble-hearted people who have never compromised on their identity.”

What have you learned about the Ezidis now that you didn’t know before?

“First of all, I would like to thank EZİDİ TIMES for giving me the opportunity to do this interview. It is an honor for me to answer the questions you have asked.”

“Before, I didn’t know much about the Ezidi people. Fortunately, thanks to Zülfü Livaneli’s Huzursuzluk book, I had the chance to learn more deeply about them. I then learned that they are an ancient people. I had once thought that the Ezidis were descended from Ezidi, the man who killed Imam Hussein in the Battle of Karbala, but I was deeply mistaken. They are not at all from Ezidi’s lineage. They are one of the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia, specifically the Assyrians.”

How do you think ISIS’s influence in the region has affected the Turkish state and all the citizens living in Turkey?

“Of course, it has had a terrible impact. Like all terrorist organizations, ISIS is a terrorist organization. It is a radical jihadist group. Just as we curse separatist, divisive terrorist organizations, we curse ISIS in the same way.”

What do you think about the living conditions of different minorities in Turkey? For example, do they have the right to be educated in their native languages (other than Turkish) in schools?

“As you know, many minorities live in Turkey. The majority populations are Turks and Kurds, and I don’t understand why these two very similar peoples are so hostile toward each other. In addition to Turks and Kurds, there are many minorities in Turkey, including Laz, Circassian, Hemshin, Zaza, Arabs, Bosniaks, Albanians, Greeks, Georgians, Sephardic Jews, and many more that I cannot list here. We must also remember the Ezidi people.”

“I have Laz relatives, and they attend optional Laz language courses in schools, which are supported by the government. I also have Circassian friends, and Circassian language courses are offered in schools. I have many Kurdish friends, and they take Kurdish language classes. Zaza friends of mine also study Zaza in schools.”

“What I mean is this: The Republic of Turkey, by its name, is a country founded by the Turks, and its official language is Turkish. According to our constitution, no matter what ethnicity you are, if you were born and live in Turkey and feel like a Turk, you are a Turk. No ethnicity is superior to another. Everyone has equal rights. I look up to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk as an example, because he took the right to govern, which was once in the hands of a single family, and gave it to the people, founding the republic.”

“In Turkey, the right to vote and be elected has been granted, and the people choose their leaders. This is called democracy, and its most important revolution was granting women the right to vote and stand for election in a society where women were once not regarded as human beings. The greatest revolution, however, is secularism, which separates religion and state affairs. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is a leader whose legacy cannot be fully described—he is a great leader whom I deeply admire. Yes, there may be people who do not like Atatürk, and I respect that. However, as a woman born in Turkey, if I am treated as a human being, if I have certain rights, and if I have equal rights to men, I owe this to Atatürk.“

From your perspective, what are the most important and challenging issues in Turkey right now? (Political, human rights, economic, etc.)

“When asked about the most pressing issues in Turkey, I regret that I must, perhaps reluctantly, criticize my country. Unfortunately, Turkey is under the leadership of the wrong people, and this saddens me deeply. We are going through difficult economic times, and Turkey is the country that accepts the most refugees in the world. The Turkish people are not happy about this, and any criticism or expression of dissent inevitably leads to one place: prison. Sadly, freedom of thought cannot be discussed in Turkey, and this is due to politicians who use religion for political gain. Atatürk dedicated his life to making Turkey a modern country, for the Turkish people. But look at the situation we’re in today—it’s truly heartbreaking. What saddens me even more is that the refugees coming to our country are often primitive and religiously extreme, and after being exhausted by radical extremists here, the arrival of even more radical individuals from abroad is a bad thing.”

“Religion should be a personal connection between a person and God; no one else has the right to interfere in that. I do not want my country to become a theocratic state. I want Turkey to be a modern, secular country like Sweden, Finland, and others. A country that respects everyone’s religion, ethnicity, sect, language, sexual orientation, and ideas. I want a country where everyone respects each other, a country that is not known as a Middle Eastern state, but as a modern, progressive nation.”

“Of course, it is never the right thing to treat refugees inhumanely. However, my country, Turkey, has suffered greatly from the refugee crisis. Damnable wars have always affected innocent people.”

As we know, the Kurds are the second-largest group in Turkey (after the Turks), and their relationship with the Turkish state has been problematic at times. Why is there still such a significant conflict between Turks and Kurds? Are all Kurds viewed as a threat by the Turkish state?

“Due to misguided politics in the 1980s, a number of bad things were done to people from different minority groups, and their languages and cultures were disregarded. But this wasn’t done only to the Kurds; it was done to other minority groups as well. I wish such foolish actions had never happened. What’s done is done, but now we must ask: how do we move forward? I know many Kurds, and they are all very good people. Today, we receive equal education and have equal rights. We don’t talk about superior or inferior races; after all, isn’t the best language the language of love?”

“However, there are some things about the Kurdish people that trouble me, and that is the PKK terrorist organisation. Just as I hate ISIS, I also despise the PKK. What bothers me are the Kurds who support the PKK. Not all Kurds support the PKK, and in fact, most of them hate it. I, too, hate the PKK because of their desire to divide Turkey.”

“I am familiar with the Kurdish people, and most of them, in fact, the vast majority, are Sunni Muslims. And they are, rightfully, true Muslims. There are no Kurdish Alevis, because Alevism is a tradition of the Kızılbaş people, and the Kızılbaş are the name given to the Alevi Turkmen. How do I know this? I learned it from my uncle, a true Turkmen Alevi from Sivas. He was a real Alevi. The concept of Kurdish Alevism comes from a historical situation: during the Ottoman period, the Kızılbaş Turkmen Alevis revolted. The ruling power of that time inflicted great cruelty on their fellow Kızılbaş Turkmen, massacring them and exiling the people. To avoid being exiled, those who didn’t want to leave their homes had to identify as Sunni Kurds. In other words, the Kızılbaş Turkmen Alevis “Kurdified” themselves in order to avoid exile and death. The ruling powers at the time were aligned with Sunni Kurds.“

“This information comes from my uncle, H. , who was a Kızılbaş Turkmen Alevi from Sivas. He used to say, “There are no Kurdish Alevis.” The term Kızılbaş specifically refers to Alevi Turkmen.”

“As I mentioned, in the 1980s, unfortunately, many harmful things were done to minority groups, and the Kurds suffered greatly during that time. I wish such things had never happened. Nowadays, such events do not occur, and in the Turkish Grand National Assembly, there are many Kurdish-origin members of parliament who have significant influence. Kurds live all across Turkey, not only in the eastern regions but also in the western regions. Kurds are present in many important sectors, and even one of our former presidents had Kurdish roots. However, despite all this, we are still portrayed as a bad nation on the world stage. We are tired of the divisive and separatist propaganda of certain Kurdish groups. The Turks are tired, the Laz are tired, and the Circassians are tired as well. Many of our soldiers were killed by this separatist terrorist organization, as were our teachers and doctors. We will never forget the torture and massacre that Neşe Alten, a teacher in a village near Diyarbakır, endured at the hands of the PKK. As an educator, I will never forget the murders of teachers Aybüke Yalçın and Necmettin Yılmaz.”

“Even war has its own laws; wars are supposed to be fought between soldiers. However, terror organizations do not hesitate to kill teachers, doctors, engineers, district governors, intellectuals, and even innocent civilians, including babies. They don’t even hesitate to kill their own people in the name of the ideology they claim to defend. I hate all wars. Wars are a great massacre for humanity, and I long for peace to prevail.”

“Are Kurds a threat to the Turkish state? Of course not, they are absolutely not a threat. We do not view the people with whom we have lived for a thousand years as a threat because of a few traitorous separatist terrorists. They are our brothers. I have many Kurdish friends around me, and I love them more than anything. They are some of the kindest people I know, truly hospitable and real Muslims. It is even said that the Turks used to believe in the ancient Turkish religion, the Göktengri faith, which is similar to Shamanism—essentially a type of paganism or nature-based religion. In Turkish mythology, nature or Earth was referred to as Ötüken.

“I read in an article that it was not the Arabs, but rather the Persians or the Kurds who led the Turks to Islam. It was written by an Iranian Kurdish academic. I also learned that the oldest religion of the Kurds is Zoroastrianism, a faith that worships the sun or fire—a type of monotheistic religion, as I understand it.”

“I sent this question to a Kurdish friend of mine, and she responded as follows:”
“I am a Kurdish girl from Suruç, Şanlıurfa, and my name is R. In my opinion, there was no such division; on the contrary, we are brothers and will remain brothers. We received education in state dormitories and schools as brothers. We lived and learned together, without distinguishing between Turk and Kurd. We never had this problem, and we never asked each other this question because such a division never existed for me.”

“What I mean to say is that there is no Turkish-Kurdish issue; the problem lies with racist, divisive, radical, and opportunistic politicians who lack proper leadership, as well as the bloodstained separatist terrorist organisations. The only thing that people want is peace, tranquility, and happiness. Both the Turkish and Kurdish people seek the right to live in peace and with dignity.”

When you wrote to me, you mentioned that you know the Ezidis are not Kurds. You also mentioned that some of the Kurds you know do not agree with this view. Why do you think Kurds prefer to consider many different minorities (such as Ezidis and Assyrians) as Kurds?

“I once had a fascist-minded Kurdish nationalist friend who told me that the people of Şengal, the Ezidis, were of Kurdish origin. He also claimed that the Syriacs and the Zazas were Kurdish as well. At the time, I didn’t know much about these issues, but later I did thorough research.”

Zazas and Kurds are indeed related, as both are of Iranian origin, but Zazas are not Kurds. They are a related people, and in fact, the Zaza people have their own language, Zaza, which is a distinct language. I had a Zaza-origin friend, and he also told me the same thing: Zazas are not Kurds.”

“When I researched the Syriac people, I learned that they are Semitic people, and their related groups are Arabs and Jews. The Ezidis and the Kurds are related peoples, but the Ezidis are not Kurds. The Ezidis are one of the peoples of Mesopotamia, they are related to the Assyrians and they have their own language, Ezdiki.

“Kurds, Zazas, and Persians are Iranian peoples, Syriacs are Semitic peoples, and the Ezidis are Mesopotamian, just like the Assyrians.”

Generally speaking, how much does the Turkish public know about the Ezidis and that they are not Kurds?

“My own people, the Turks, have little knowledge even about their own ethnicity, let alone about the Ezidis. They are often unaware of their own ancient traditions, such as the Tengri faith that the Turks followed before becoming Muslim. They don’t know about the history of Anatolian Turks or even the history of the Ottoman Empire. Many are also uninformed about the revolutions brought by Atatürk. Those who criticize Atatürk, claiming that he introduced secularism to destroy religion, fail to understand that Atatürk did the right thing by separating religion from the state. The sacred values of religion should never be mixed with the lies of politics. If religion and politics are intertwined, religion becomes exploited and manipulated. Politics, which divides and separates people, should never be associated with religion, yet unfortunately, this point is often misunderstood. In Turkey, people read very little and tend to believe a lot, which deeply saddens me. Of course, there are enlightened and well-read people, but they are not the majority, sadly.”

“Reading is a beautiful thing, and I wish more people understood that. Isaac Newton once said, “What we know is a drop, what we don’t know is an ocean.” There is so much we don’t know, and we should never stop seeking knowledge, because knowledge is the greatest power.”

“The majority of people in Turkey, like in many other countries, are Muslim. They believe in Islam, and the first verse of the Quran is “READ.” Yet, unfortunately, many Muslims do not read. Islam, in its essence, is a religion of tolerance. But politics, with its divisive and separating nature, tarnishes the image of all religions.”

Finally, do you have any thoughts or messages you would like to convey or share with our readers?

“What I want to convey to the world is this: We were first born as human beings, but that doesn’t mean we are superior to other living beings. Yes, we are different from other creatures because we are capable of thinking. But we are not the rulers of the world. This world does not belong solely to humans; it is a living space for all creatures, and humans are the ones who cause the most harm to it. I don’t understand why some people consider themselves so superior. Regardless, we are born as humans, then transition into the cultural identity of the region where we are born, and adopt the religion of the family that brings us into the world. Before we are born, we don’t have the ability to choose our family, our ethnicity, or our religion; we are simply born to live as human beings. Unfortunately, geography often becomes the determinant of a person’s fate.”

“As Ibn Khaldun said, “Geography is destiny.” I could have been born in Norway or Switzerland, or I could have been born in Afghanistan. If I were born in Norway, my future would be somewhat predictable, but if I were born in Afghanistan, my future would also be certain in its own way.”

“Still, I’m glad I was born in Turkey, and I wish for Turkey to become a much better, more modern country, one where freedom of thought reigns, and education is prioritized. As Atatürk said: “There are no hopeless situations, only hopeless people. I have not lost my hope.” I, too, have not lost my hope, and I won’t. Even though I criticize my country, Turkey is actually a country full of good people, a cosmopolitan nation with many different ethnicities. Every country has its strengths as well as its weaknesses, unfortunately.”

“Recently, something that upset me happened. Swedish environmental activist Greta Thunberg made some absurd and unreasonable accusations about the Turkish people. She only communicated with and listened to the Kurds. There is a rule in law that states there should be no judgment without trial, yet this young activist engaged in one-sided communication. Greta only listened to the separatist Kurds—how I wish she had also listened to the Turks, Lazs, and Circassians. I wonder what they would have said about the separatists. Unfortunately, Greta made a mistake, and her actions didn’t only upset the Turkish people; they also upset Kurds who love Turkey. Even my closest Kurdish friend was disturbed by this situation. I see Greta as an uninformed adolescent girl, and I don’t want to say more about it. Turkey is the country that accepts the most refugees in the world, and its economy has been devastated because of the influx of refugees. What more should Turkey do?”

“I wish all people in the world had equal rights, that everyone received equal education, and that the world was one where peace and prosperity, in line with human rights, reigned. But unfortunately, such a world seems difficult to achieve. Instead, they are focused on dividing and tearing people apart. Yet, isn’t the most beautiful language the language of love? How wonderful it would be if everyone respected and showed love to one another. But it doesn’t happen; we break each other, divide, and tear each other apart, destroying all our dignity. I wish it wasn’t like this. The state of the world deeply saddens me as a human being.”

“I would like to thank EZİDİ TIMES once again for giving me the opportunity for this interview. I would love to gift my painting of the Peacock Angel to a true Ezidi from the ancient Şengal people. I hope that one day I will be able to give this gift to an Ezidi.”

“The suffering endured by the Ezidi people deeply saddens me. I wish that in Turkey, a place of worship, a temple, could be built for the Ezidi people so that they could practice their faith in peace and tranquility. Not only for the Ezidis, but also for Zoroastrians and Syriacs, it would be meaningful if places of worship were built for them as well. It may seem difficult, but it is not impossible. I hope that one day, the Ezidi people will find peace and happiness in their homeland, and that they will have places and times to live properly. These are my wishes and prayers for the Ezidi people.”

“Not only for the Ezidi people, but I wish that all peoples around the world could live as free people in peace. I wish for a world where there are no wars, and peace prevails everywhere.”

“Peace at home, peace in the world.” — Mustafa Kemal Atatürk